october10 2023-01-10 17:07
I can't imagine! As a new user, I am seeing board games for the first time. I watched the instructions, and I felt that the board game struck a balance between gameplay and narrative.
Foon → Ludum Dare Explorer → LD52 → Crawling to the Brink
| Category | Rank | Score | Count | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Overall | 405 | 3.50 | 20 | |
| Fun | 323 | 3.50 | 19 | |
| Innovation | 86 | 3.87 | 22 | |
| Theme | 737 | 2.92 | 21 | |
| Humor | 381 | 2.93 | 18 | |
| Mood | 259 | 3.68 | 21 |
I can't imagine! As a new user, I am seeing board games for the first time. I watched the instructions, and I felt that the board game struck a balance between gameplay and narrative.
Hi Beth I'm sad to say that I wanted to try your game but I can't xD I was reading the rules, found the story very alluring, but not so much the constant weird names for everything. Then arrived at the "moving over the cards" mechanism and I thought "wow, thats so clever, I haven't seen that before" just to later realize I don't have standard cards at home so I won't be able to play XD
Btw I have a medium shelf full of boardgames and I don't have enough dice in 3 colors XD! Wouldn't this work with just dice of any colors assigned separately to each row?
Really cool concept, and neat to use the pips on the cards as movement spaces. I found it a little hard to follow with all of the special thematic names for things - it might be easier to learn the game without having to learn all that lingo at the same time. Very cool concept and mood, and a fun idea. Good to see a tabletop game in here amongst the million video games.
Thank you so much @october10! The last board game I made was like 99% game and 1% theme (the theme was there, but I didn't have time to get it onto the board itself) so I really aimed to achieve more theme this time. And it means a lot that you found it struck that balance well! Thanks for checking the game out :D
@pinchazumos It does indeed work with multiple colors :D In fact, until I remembered that I had a game with 100 dice in it, I did exactly that. One of the rows was two different colors, and the other was one color. It made remembering which was which a little harder, but I just used one thing of each color beside that row as a reminder :)
Thanks so much for the wonderful comments, and yeah lol, I realized too late that I went too far with the themed names for things. I literally had to look up the terms I used myself each time I used them 🤣🤣🤣 But it's also good to know that my concern about overusing them was justified with your feedback as well :D
Aaawwwww thanks @dob!! Y'all are making me feel super welcome as a tabletop creator :D I started as a video game designer making little flash games and, a bit before Flash died, I quit it. It was a long time before I gave tabletop games a shot, and it's been such an eye-opening experience!
I appreciate your feedback so much, and yeah lol the themed names definitely went too far here. If this were a packaged game it would've been so much easier to just refer to the colors of dice or something, but... Oh hey that actually gives me an idea! If each set of dice was a different shape (d8 vs d6, for example) then one wouldn't even have to worry about the colors on the dice...
So yeah! Thanks very much to you and to @pinchazumos for pointing out the terminology issues as it led to this idea for another iteration post-jam 🥳🥳🥳
nice game yoo..keep rocking
IMG_20230118_144013__01.jpg
So, I only tried this against myself, but it was really fun!
As others have pointed out, using the card symbols as movement spaces is a really cool and not something I've seen before. The mechanics of Diviner placement and movement also felt quite intuitive to me, after I had understood the rules.
I'll also agree that the rules can be confusing to learn. Though, personally, this isn't because of the jargon used, but rather I feel that some things could just simply be explained better. I'll go through a few of the things that confused me:
- When seeing that Oracular dice are split into two colors, I assumed that each color would be used by each Analyst. This does not seem to be the case, however, because the Active Analyst uses all eight of them. The assumption I had was so strong, that I had to search around several times to see whether I had missed something, and I'm still not sure that I didn't. Why are they split into two colors matching each of the players if they aren't actually used by each of the players? - Okay I lied, I do actually have one jargon complaint. I found the word 'Oracle' unintuitive. It's usually used for a person, not a movement field. Perhaps 'Constellation' would work? (You can call the spaces 'Stars'!) Or, 'Cauldron'? Likewise, 'other Oracle' is kind of ambiguous, 'opposite' (which is sometimes used!) is clearer in its meaning. - The word 'move' is used in the rulebook to refer to both movement of a Diviner, and the whole action of either moving or placing a Diviner. This is slightly confusing. However, page 3 also uses the phrase 'move on (an Oracle),' which to me implies only placement, but I don't think that's intended. (Or is it???) - Likewise, the word 'space' refers to both a column of Oracles and the movement spaces within an Oracle. On page 3 the phrase 'opposite Oracle's matching space' is used twice, which seems like it would mean the *matching movement space of the opposite Oracle,* but the infographic above demonstrates it to mean *the opposite Oracle in the same column of Oracles.* At least, I think it does? Or I might have played your game incredibly wrong, haha - This also means that on page 5, the sentence 'If the Diviner is on the leftmost or central column of spaces, it's lost.' could refer to either of the definitions of spaces. I spent a hot minute trying to figure out what happens to a Diviner if it's in column 2 or 4, before it clicked that this was referring to movement spaces. - Wait, actually, here's a new question. Does Oracular movement also move the other Analyst's Diviner on the opposite card? I had assumed that not, but now I'm rereading the rules as I write this comment and I'm getting confused all over again. It does say that it's identical to the Epiphinal dice but it also says that the Secondary Analyst's movement has ended. Does the Active Analyst moving the Secondary Analyst's Diviners count as the Secondary Analyst's movement?? (Okay, with another reread, I think that my original assumption was correct. But this is still something that could be worded better!) - This is a minor nitpick, but I would change the the Analyst pairs' names to be either Active and Reactive or Primary and Secondary, not a mix of the two.
I also think that you might want to explore the theme of the game a bit more. In its essence, the gameplay is about moving things through spaces on different fields, which has precious little to do with divination, at least with how you currently have it. The gameplay conjures the image of exploration, you should lean into this more.
Apologies for this absolute wall of text ^^' I really did find the game fun. You've created something cool and unique. You've also done an amazing job at making the rulebook and storybook look pretty, and I did quite enjoy the setup story of the game! This is something I'm definitely going to keep my eye on, I want to see what you do with it after the jam! [:
Hi! I tried to play your game. It looks very cool! It is on my "to play list" for a few weeks now. Sadly, I don't really understand the instructions too well :( I set the game up, and the concept of using the spaces inside the cards is very cool! I love that kind of alternative play!
However, I'm struggling with the "how to play" itself. Because I don't really understand it, I feel like i can't really give 'good' feedback. I'll just give you the inside of my messy head instead. Everything that is ~~crossed out~~ means that I had those thoughts and that, while writing this comment, had an epiphany.
I think this game could benefit from a 'how to play' video. I'm a visual type, so maybe that could have made things more clear :smile:
**What is clear to me:** - How to set up the playing field - The mechanics of the Epiphinal Dice - The fact that the colored dice corrospond to the orcle rows - How to win is very clear. - How to move spaces on the oracle cards and that the most right row is safe from losing your definer - That your definer is lost when you walk off the board
**Assumptions I have made:** - ~~Each analyst has their own color deviners? Reading the comment above, I think this is not the case. Then only the secundary analyst controls the deviners?~~ - When there is a tie, the game starts again? - It is not maindatory to choose the lower number oracle right? In the explaination of the third page this is described. I assume this could be a tactic. - The "saboteur" chooses always a high numbered oracle? - When moving off the oracle card because one had to jump over another deviner. There is movement caused on the oposite oracle. How many spaces would that be? And I assume that this only occurs IF there is a deviner of the same color on that oposite oracle? - The roles of analyst and active analyst switch each turn?? At the end of page two it is described that roles are switch repeatately, but this is nowhere described. Only in the section "The End?" this is described. Which implies that the switching roles happens between games.
**What I did not understand/questions:** - ~~Oposite oracle? You mean, 'the other oracle in the same column'?~~ - Are you allowed to choose an empty oracle space (card missing) when there is one still empty (without deviners?) - ~~Can there be more than one of the same colored deviner on an oracle?~~ No. - I don't understand why the active analyst needs to hide the epiphinal dice, while clearly setting them below the correspronding oracle spaces. What is the point of hiding them? Or does the active analyst hide the other dice? Also, what happens if you have two of the same epiphical dice? This edgecase is nowhere described. - ~~On the third page there is an explaination where the secundary analyst moves their deviner. And that the oracles deviner moves on the maching space in the oposite oracle. This is a braintwister for me. In my head this means that:~~ - ~~if the secundary player has an oracle of 5, and moves to the last spot, that the active player, who could be on an oracle of 3, looses their deviner because it just went off the oracle?~~ - or does move mean.... moving onto the oracle? oh wait.. I think I get it now! - At the bottom of the third page, it is explained that the active analyst to move THEIR definer, but when does the secondary analyst move their definer? And how is it 'the same' as the epiphinal dice? How is determined which oracle die controls which deviner? (i know about the color coding, each color corrosponds to a row of oracles)
*I did rate what I could. But for fun and overall I kept the rating clear, as I could not play the game, I can't say much about the fun factor.*
i wish you provided a video of gameplay. i love that cards are playing fields. looks like more effort then making a video game XD very clean professional.
_Having a physical game, that's also mostly meant for more than one player is really the hard-mode of the Ludum Dare ratings phase._
Anyway, while it may have been a little more difficult to set up and get going than a normal LDjam game (especially since I apparently lost my deck of cards -- what is a game designer without one?) I did have a lot of fun when I got going. I played solo, but I still got the feeling that I outwitted 'myself' on a number of occasions. (Though some turns didn't offer a lot of choice. And I think I only had to use the skip-past-end-of-card rules once in the entire game.)
(As an aside, I'm not entirely sure I can see the theme... I suppose the cards are harvested after 'growing' them in a sense,
Here's a photo of my game a few turns in (and below that, some observations I mostly wrote during play):
a_few_turns_in.jpg
- I assume the active analyst switches per turn (since it just says 'frequently', and the alternative seems a tad unfair to the 2nd player).
- I found it useful to put the white (Ephiphanal) dice in between the two oracles. (See photo.) That may just be me though.
- I think I avoided peeking at the specific (Oracular) dice when I was the active analyst, so I couldn't perfectly (well, in theory, I change my mind often...) predict my own moves as the secondary analyst. Or: ... a turn later I realized I can just roll them afterwards though :sweat_smile:
- Balancing the great amount of dice rolled to keep the game snappy with the need to use a particular color (for the specific dice) is nice.
- Most (immediate) strategic things seem to happen when you can move more than once on the same card in the same turn. it lessens the choices made a bit in this phase of the turn (unless you rolled 6es) but also gives you a bit of breathing room, and it still really feels like you're getting somewhere as the _active_ player. (Since the 1st phase of the turn, after the die rolling it feels mostly like the secondary analyst is 'in charge'.)
- I assume that when moving a diviner, you can only move your own pips. And here I realize that you always only move your own, you just _force_ the other player to do stuff sometimes, but it's still their 'choice' (even if there is none). This means you _never_ move anothers diviner, only make use of them to move your own ... which means that, while the game has a lot of random inputs, every choice is (technically) yours. Somehow realizing this simplified a lot of the game, like condensing it into a shape I could very easily grasp.
- It seems movement is mandatory in a lot of cases (when all cards are still on the table and no 6es have been rolled for example). This keeps the game snappy, but I wonder if there's some space to be explored in giving possibilities for _not_ moving (on a card for example) say with a few 'abstain' resources. (Would fit in with the story less though... or at least the way the rest of the game seems to interpret the story -- does that make sense?)
- I assume the rule for the empty oracle space always holds, instead of just for the specific case of a not-really-lost diviner that should be placed on an empty space. (This also ties in with the advice given under solo play of the Saboteur 'preferring empty spaces'.)
- What if an entire oracle is empty? For example, suppose there's only one card left in total (I don't have to suppose myself, since this is what happened...) How does the 'move on any card on the opposite oracle if there's one empty' rule go? Actually, since that card is a 3, and I have to take 4 actions for each applicable set of dice (the dice for the other oracle now do nothing I suppose), each analyst will lose 1 diviner each per half-turn, and the last card will never clear...
... I think I just game-overed :sweat_smile:
(It bears repeating: I did really enjoy most of it! :slight_smile: )
IMG_3008.jpg
... This is as far as I could get :slight_frown: I love it for the fact that it's a Ludum Dare board game alone, but I couldn't understand the rules, especially when it came to moving and using the oracular dice. rubr's comment sums up well what confused me as well.
Maybe a "Watch it played" video (ideally with Rodney Smith) would have helped to understand the flow of the game?
Still, it's a great entry and I would definitely bring it to my table again (probably with 2 players) with updated rules. This seems solid and I too love the innovative ideas and your creativity, and it made me curious to take a look at your other creations on itch! Great job! :grin:
IM A PROFFESIONAL BLACKJACK PLAYER, I HIT ON 19!!! GOOD LUCK!!!