k-s-raj 2022-10-13 06:05
Nice game.
Foon → Ludum Dare Explorer → LD51 → The Epicathelon
| Category | Rank | Score | Count | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Overall | 258 | 3.84 | 24 | |
| Fun | 497 | 3.47 | 23 | |
| Innovation | 233 | 3.73 | 23 | |
| Theme | 895 | 3.31 | 23 | |
| Humor | 246 | 3.50 | 22 | |
| Mood | 670 | 3.35 | 23 |
Nice game.
That was a cool experience, but the rules are massives
@mandytoh LOL yeah that was actually one of my biggest learning experiences on this game: trying to make rules more concise, yet accessible for people who likely don't play many tabletop games (or certainly don't expect to see one here). I was super proud of myself for fitting it on a single page, but I'm sure I could've squeezed it down more 🤣
One of the most ambitious efforts this LD, and definitely unique! :D
OMG thank you @mickxe, that's one heck of a compliment, and I'm saving that in my list of awesome stuff people have said 🥳
Very ambitious indeed, but quite cool! The board and the ruleset was very well laid out and visually clean, which is never easy. Print-and-play titles are always a breath of fresh air in LD, and this one feels quite polished, congrats! It would have been really cool to have an online playable digital prototype though...
I'm not a huge fan of any chutes and ladders mechanics ever, and I found the connection between the paths with their animal imagery and the abstract playing field a bit far-fetched, but I guess overall it still added to the atmosphere rather than take away from it.
All in all a memorable entry, well done!
I don't often see boardgames on LD, so I had to try this :) I played it together with @lenaschimmel and it was more fun than expected - it's impressive to make a board game in such a short time!
We hadn't gotten very far when the time track ran out for the first time, but we decided to continue playing and see how many time tracks it will take us to win. We managed to finish very closely before it would have run out for the second time :)
epicathelon.jpg
We found out rather quickly that it's useful to think about which numbers we would like to have in the next turn before starting the timer and rolling - 10 seconds are quite short to reroll until you get what you want, but it was possible more often that not :)
We came upon a few questions where the rules were unclear for us and we had to decide arbitrarily, but maybe you can tell us how you intended it to be:
1. For the meeple starting on track 1/2, how does each player decide if they start on 1 or 2?
2. The rules say to start the morale track at the green space in the upper right corner - but there is no such space. We decided to use the upper left corner instead, and then wondered: does that mean we should immediately move the time track forward at the beginning of the game?
3. Also, is "at the end of the turn" (for the green spaces on the morale track) counted for each player separately, or only once after all players have moved their meeples?
4. Do the treacherous terrain spaces on the 1&2 track (where you need 1+2 to move into them) count as one space, or are they divided so that the number you need to move out of them depends on which side you are standing on?
5. If a meeple wasn't moved in a turn and would fall back: if it's closely after the starting space so that there is no pink space left of it, does it fall back to the green space instead? or not at all?
6. If a meeple falls back, does it follow the black arrows in reverse direction?
7. If there is an impassable space (red X) between a meeple that would fall back and the next pink space to the left: does the meeple automatically move around it sideways (on track 1/2)? (Example: if you fall back from the 7th space on track 2, do you land on the 5th space of track 1?)
8. Why is there an impassable pink space (space 10 on track 1)? If you would fall back to that, do you automatically move to track 2, space 10?
wow this is very very specific and detailed rules and leadings, i would say it's very unique and cool to play your game
Oh wow, that was an very interesting one. Strongly recommend 💪
I'd work a little bit more on graphics, but the concept is amazing. Definitely a unique game.
@ditam LOL you know, I never even considered it Snakes and Ladders-esque until you and a friend of mine mentioned it... And now I love it! It's also a super easy way to explain the game "yeah it's Snakes and Ladders but better (hopefully)" :rofl:
I absolutely plan to take the overly abstract board and make it thematic as well, I just ran out of time, 10 seconds at a time I guess :D In fact, this game didn't even have a theme until Angel came up with it the morning Ludum Dare was ending, and I hadn't even started on the rules page at that point and just whew!
Oh my goodness @flauschzelle thank you soooooooo much for your in depth comment!! That means sooooo much to me as I really plan to expand on this and make it a more full experience :) I'll reply to each point here, but also I'm taking notes so I can address them in a future iteration of the game
1. Good question lol. We just picked, but if I just put a meeple icon or something on one of them (or only highlight one that color for now) that should make it clear without the added choice going into the game (I hate when I have to make choices before I even know what the game is like lol so I hate making others do it too) 2. OMG I meant upper-left! Thank you for that catch, and way to choose the "right" square to start on. 3. At the end of each player's turn. So if one player moves the meeple/token on the morale track onto the green "time progressing" space, they move the time one space ahead. Then if the next player doesn't move the morale tracker meeple/token at all, it'll move the time forward again. In theory, this will encourage players to go ahead and "waste" a die (even if they can use all of them) for the betterment of all of the players, but if one player is way ahead they may purposely leave it there... And, well, we only tested this version a couple of times (and the current time track once) so it remains to be seen if it works out that way lol 4. That's exactly correct: treacherous spaces count as one space, and you can exit with either a 1 or a 2 by moving to the corresponding space 5. Also correct: the meeple should move back to the green space instead of a pink space. I didn't even consider this, thank you :D I'm hoping in a "final version" there will just be some kind of "recovery space" icon that'll clear that up 6. (and also 7) Nope: they fall all the way back to the most recent pink space on that row, even if it's through an impassable space. In my brain this was like if you were to slide down a mountain or back across water that you couldn't possibly have gotten up/through, but can absolutely slide back down or gotten carried back by a strong current...but when they just look like squares and Xs, that doesn't come across, and that's absolutely my fault :rofl: 8. (actually 8) Correct: you would fall back to the pink space in track 2 even if you were on track 1 when you fell back. I've been told repeatedly to avoid edge cases and then here I go creating so many of them :rofl:
Again, thank you so, so, so much for this! I got a lot of value out of your questions, and Ludum Dare is actually the closest I've come to "blind playtesting" one of my games! I'd heart your comment 500 times if I could 🧡
Oh, and I forgot to mention that seeing the photo is SOOOOOO COOL!!! That's the closest I've come to feeling like a ***real*** tabletop creator :D
Thank you so much @aj-studio, that means so much to me :D
@akai-syuuichi Thank you! I'm normally terrible with rules, so the idea of writing them in a matter of hours, fitting them on a single page (which I never do because I just go on and on and on and on...), and then not having the time to edit them myself was terrifying :rofl: So it means a LOT to hear that
@panfil-alexandrina Thank you! Yeah, the art 100000% needs work, and a lot of it. I appreciate you being honest about that :D And thank you as well for the kind words, unique is my middle name lol
@cataclysmicknight thanks for your answers, they cleared up a lot of points where we now know we didn't play as intended. So we'll have to play it again and see how it works out :)
A themed version of the game sheet with some art showing the landscapes would be lovely (and probably also clear up some confusion like you said). When you've made one, please tell me :)
After reading your answer to 3. several times, it dawned on me how I had originally misinterpreted the rule description - when we played it, I thought that we should move the time track *one* space whenever the morale meeple is moved __through__ a green space (but doesn't stop there), and *two* spaces (one immediately and one after moving your other meeples) when it __stops on__ a green space.
But now I think you're supposed to move the time track *one* space if the morale meeple __stops on__ the green space, and *also one* space if it was already there at the beginning of your turn and you __didn't move__ the morale meeple at all in your turn - but you *don't have to move* the time track when the morale meeple is __moved through__ a green space but doesn't stop there. Did I get that right now?
One idea about rules that may be confusing: many of my favorite boardgames' rulebooks have examples (with pictures and description) next to the abstract wording of the rules. If you plan to make a post-jam version of this game with more art etc., maybe you could also include examples in your rulebook?
Nice Work!
@flauschzelle The fact that there were points that weren't clear isn't a surprise (especially since I had to slap the rules together so fast lol) but knowing where the issues were is more valuable than I can express :D
I will DEFINITELY let you know when it's done :) I have it slated for next month (I have another game to finish this month for my Patreon, we promise one game per month and it's the 20th and I haven't started mine lol; then next month I've got a TTRPG I'm making for a jam and a TTRPG course I'm making) and hopefully that actually happens :D
Yeah, the "when to move the time tracker" is one of those things that, in the game's current state, is hard to explain in a clear way. I mean, even now I'm like "wait, how DID we do that when we playtested?" I'm like 99% sure we played it where, if the morale meeple enters that space it moves the time track, and then one more at the end of each player's turn (NOT including the player who moved it there) if it's still there. So, say, in a three-player game, if player 2 moves the morale meeple onto the green space, the time track immediately moves one space. If they don't move it again, the time track doesn't move again yet even though the turn ended there...but if the third player doesn't move it either, then time passes once more. The next round, if the first player doesn't move it AGAIN, then the time tracker moves again too, etc.
In other words, in most cases the time tracker should only move once (maybe twice at most) each time the morale meeple reaches a green square. But with that said, I need to make it much easier to remember that and for it to be easy to follow in the future. If even I'm having trouble writing it out, I definitely can't expect anyone else to learn/explain/follow it :rofl:
In fact, I think I like your rule there even more, and I'll definitely have to test it: that you merely ignore the green space entirely if the morale meeple passes it. It makes sense, since the same thing happens with the other spaces. Then it'd just be unified and without any special circumstances to remember :)
And yes! Examples sound great! I love seeing them in rulebooks too, and I definitely think it'd be worth it to make the rules two pages but have examples and illustrations included.
Oh, this was actually the first time I've seen and tried a Ludum Dare board game and I liked it! I believe that we should definitely bring more attention to the genre, I'm also tempted to give it a try to make my own as well! (do you have any tips? :P)
Good mechanics, and that's one of the unique aspects of a board game: you can focus on having a great core mechanic and system and all the fun will come with it. Well done!
Awwwww thank you so much @unidaystudio!!! I love bringing visibility and attention to lesser-seen stuff 🥳 And it'd be awesome if you do it too, definitely let me know if you do :)
Tips would really just be to aim for as few required items as possible. I ended up with way more than I wanted to use here lol, I was hoping for a couple of dice at most or something and ended up with a slew of meeples and dice, whoops 🤣 But between the time constraints and just running with something that was fun, it worked out. AND it's still way fewer than the first prototype had. If you want more details, I blogged about it actually. It's on Patreon but our blog posts don't require someone to be a patron, just the access to our games does (and early access to posts once in a while)
- The first 24 hours --> https://www.patreon.com/posts/ludum-dare-51-24-72752334 - Postmortem --> https://www.patreon.com/posts/game-files-ld51-72875466
And thank you so much for the comments :D You're exactly right: find a fun core mechanic and just build on it, chisel away what detracts from that fun and add things that utilize it even more :) Plus you skip the whole bug-hunting aspect of video game dev and if you wanna try something else, you literally just add a component or remove it lol. Shuffling is annoying though, video games definitely have tabletop games beat for that 🤣 And for the ability for others to play them! OMG I miss just embedding a flash file and calling it a day, and having people get video clips and stuff...